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I’ve struggled in my interpretation of this section about the “two witnesses” for a long time. My question is about the identity of the two witnesses. Corporate witnesses or individuals?

• It is written, “These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.” (Rev 11:4)
• And in Rev. 1:20 “…and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.”
• Five of the seven Churches were rebuked and 2 were commended as “overcomers.”
• The beast “makes war with them” and “overcome them and kill them.” (Rev 11:7)
• They “tormented them that dwelt on the earth.” (Rev 11:10)
• They receive “power” for the last 3 ½ years. (Rev 11:3)

The identity of the two witnesses must take account of two important questions: 1) Their relationship to the rest of the body of Christ. 2) Their relationship to Jerusalem.

The relationship of the witnesses to the greater body of Christ raises the question of the time of the rapture. Most, who are not pre-tribulational in their view of the rapture, will agree that Paul’s “last trump” (1Cor 15:52), and Jesus’ “great sound of a trumpet” (Isa 27:13; Mt 24:31) are rightly identified with the seventh trumpet (Rev 10:7; 11:15, 18; see my article, “The Rapture Question Decisively Answered by the Timing of the Day of the Lord”).

A comparison of Rev 8:12-13 with Rev 11:13-15 will show that the three woes are also the last three trumpets. The public ascension of the two witnesses takes place at the time of the second woe, which is also the sixth trumpet (Rev 11:12-14). At this point Christ has not yet returned. The announcement of the imminence of the third woe is followed by the sounding of the seventh trumpet, which finishes the mystery of God with Christ’s return to raise the dead and judge the nations (Rev 10:7; 11:14-15, 18).

If the two witnesses are not individuals, but represent a much larger number, it is certain that their resurrection and ascension precedes Christ’s return at the seventh trumpet. This raises the question of why this larger number would be taken up such a short time before the return of Christ to gather the rest of His elect “immediately after the tribulation of those days” (Mt 24:29-31).

It is one thing if the two witnesses are raised before the rest of the church if they are two single individuals, but if they symbolically represent two distinct companies within the greater body of Christ, then we will be interested to understand why they should be raised to ascend sometime before the rest of the church is raised. What sets them apart?

The usual answer is that they represent a special remnant within the larger church that have a special assignment of some kind, and that their distinction from the rest of the body is based on a special degree of personal sanctification. Viewed as a corporate company, or two distinct companies, the two witnesses are typically seen as a special class of ‘over-comers’ that should be distinguished from the rest of the church. For me, this raises a critical question. What about Paul?

Certainly, the tremendous events of the tribulation will deeply refine the church, so that she will be prepared for the climatic event of the rapture, not only as to time, but as to faith. Those days will have a way of making one an ‘over-comer’, or else a lack of true root will be exposed in the multitudes that will fall away.

I realize there are some doctrines out there that suggest that Paul was personally in doubt as to whether he would attain to the first resurrection. I think this is to misunderstand Paul’s use of terms.

In view of Paul’s understanding of the potential power of Christ’s resurrection in the present life of the believer, it is not likely that he is speaking only of the resurrection at the ‘last day’. His language is inclusive of all resurrection, but the focus of the context is on the deeper apprehension of the power of Christ’s resurrected life in the present life of faith (Phil 3:9-12).

We see an example of this desire in first chapter of Philippians. There, Paul entreats the prayers of the church that Christ might be the more fully magnified now in his present mortal body (Phil 1:19-20). To this end, Paul would continually press towards the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Phil 3:14). For Paul, terms like salvation and resurrection are not restricted to initial regeneration or to resurrection at the last day, but to the greater magnification of Christ in his body, whether it be by life or by death (Phil 1:19-21).

Moreover, if we make the first resurrection a matter of higher sanctification, such as to put Paul’s own attainment in question, we must explain how he could so confidently assure average believers that they would see their loved ones that had fallen to sleep in Christ? (see 1Thes 4:13-14, 17-18).

I believe this teaching tends to confuse reward with inheritance and divides the body along lines that undermine the Lord’s own view of His body in its essential corporate nature. Taken together, 1Cor 15:23, 52 with 1Thes 4:14 makes clear that “all” (not just some) who belong to Christ, and “all” (not just some) who sleep in Jesus, have a common share in the “blessed hope” of the church (Tit 2:13). This is much to be distinguished from the issue of reward and rule.

The bride will indeed make herself ready in terms of final sanctification. That is one of the purposes that will be accomplished in the coming tribulation. But when we speak of the over-comer church, we need to remember that in the book of Revelation, the over-comers are those who have gotten the victory over the beast and his mark, so that the church that endures to the return of Christ is by definition an overcoming church. The only alternative is final and irreversible reprobation.

In the context of the book of Revelation, those that overcome are the saved and those that do not overcome are the lost.

The second question that bears on the identity of the two witnesses is their relationship to the city of Jerusalem. An examination of the context will demonstrate that the city cannot be spiritualized to stand for a ubiquitous and universal Zion of God. Both it and the judgments associated with it are plainly localized. This implies that two literal persons literally lie in the literal city until they are raised up in the sight of their enemies. If this can be spiritualized, then everything the prophets and Jesus say concerning Jerusalem’s fate in relation to the day of the Lord can be equally spiritualized.

Finally, who are these two literal persons? I can’t prove it, but I believe their ministries significantly parallel the things that are recorded of Moses and Elijah. I take the view that this speaks of an Elijah and Moses anointing, not the literal return of Moses and Elijah, much the same way that Jesus sees John the Baptist as a fulfillment of the pre-day of the Lord return of Elijah in terms of ‘the spirit and power of Elijah.

The two witnesses of the tribulation are raised up to ‘finish the house’ (Zech 4:9) by emptying out of themselves (Christ within them) the golden oil that is piped into the seven lamped candlestick. Significantly, we see the holy Menorah in the Revelation, as symbolic of the seven churches.

Notice also that in Zech 4:14, the two witnesses are called, “the two sons of oil who stand by the Lord of the whole earth.” This further suggests that it is Moses and Elijah that form the background for the ministry of the two witnesses, since they are the ones who were seen ‘standing by the Lord of the whole earth” on the holy mount.

The literalness of an event does not diminish its symbolic value, because certainly, the choice of Moses and Elijah is intended enforce the recognition that the combined witness of the Law and the prophets all testify to the revelation of Christ’s glory.

Grace to you, Reggie

[This recent exchange added to what Reggie has written previously on the “two witnesses” spoken of in Revelation 11. See the article from several years ago here.]

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Wed, Mar 12, 2008
I was wanting to know if you had any insights/holy musings about the identity of these two. From what I’ve studied and been exposed to regarding this, I’ve heard the following conclusions:

1. They are symbols for the “dispensation” of Israel & the Church
2. Elijah & Moses ala James, Peter’s, and John’s vision/visitation on the Mountain.
3. Daniel & John (a different take I thought)
4. Enoch & Elijah, or Enoch and some other combination.
5. Some other hitherto, unrevealed, yet comprehensively fulfilling (for all ages), symbolic designation per Zechariah chapter 4.

Of course, many, many er…”inspired” folk have also taken upon…(suprise) themselves!- to be either one or both of these personages as well, but in a precious moment of spiritual sobriety, I will forgoe the conclusion that these cases are moot for the negative. Now, I have just got my copy of David Baron’s commentary on Zechariah, so I don’t know what he has/had to say about it…but regardless, any further insight would be appreciated.

I’ve yet to check out what David Baron has written on Zech 4 in particular, but you could scarce get a more reliable guide than Baron in most things pertaining to Israel in prophecy. I recently consulted his commentary on Zechariah to get his take on the woman and the ephah.

I see Zechariah chapters 3 & 4 to be the key. Rev 11:4 explicitly ties these two witnesses of the end to what was first symbolized in the offices and ministries of Joshua, the high priest, and the governor, Zerubbabel of the royal seed of David. “These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth”.

 Twice in Zech 4 the question is asked concerning the identity of the two olive trees that stand on either side of the golden, seven lamp candelabrum, which we know as the Menorah (Zech 4:4, 11). The answer that follows the question of verse 4 is less specific concerning the identity of the two olive trees but addresses itself to the the vision in its entirety, as this will be crucial to the more specific identification the two olive trees and the two golden pipes in that answers the second question of verse 11.

2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:

3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.

4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?

This is the word of the Lord  unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord  of hosts. 7 Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it … The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the Lord  of hosts hath sent me unto you. For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? … Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord  of the whole earth.

So before coming to the more specific question of verse 11 concerning the two olive trees in particular, the prophet inquires in verse 4, “what are THESE?”. Here, the prophet’s question is referring back to what is represented in the whole of the vision in every aspect of its configuration. The point of all being that what Zechariah will personally witness of Zerubbabel’s successful completion of the temple (the house), but this will amount to a disappointing ‘day of small things’ that will witness to something far greater that will follow upon the yet future day of the Lord and the greater return that follows that great transition. This becomes evident, not only by the later chapters of the book of Zechariah, 8, 10, and 14 in particular, but the prophecy of his fellow contemporary prophet, Haggai.  (see Hag 2:2-3, 6-7, 9, 21-23).

2 Speak now to Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, and to the residue of the people, saying, 3 Who is left among you that saw this house in her first glory? and how do ye see it now? is it not in your eyes in comparison of it as nothing? … 6 For thus saith the Lord of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land; 7 And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the Lord of hosts … 9 The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the Lord of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the Lord of hosts… 21 Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I will shake the heavens and the earth; 22 And I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms, and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen; and I will overthrow the chariots, and those that ride in them; and the horses and their riders shall come down, every one by the sword of his brother. 23 In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, will I take thee, O Zerubbabel, my servant, the son of Shealtiel, saith the Lord, and will make thee as a signet: for I have chosen thee, saith the Lord of hosts.

Clearly, this is the background of Rev 11’s reference to the two witnesses. This suggests very strongly that we are to understand the work of the two witnesses in the light of the eschatological “restoration of all things” (Mal 4:5; Lk 1:17; Mt 17:11), which reaches its predestined climaxin the return of Jesus from heaven (Acts 3:21). Their task will be to fulfill the roles pre-typified in the anointed offices of Joshua and Zerubabbel in the completion of the house. Taken with all that scripture reveals concerning a great final work of restoration that will prevail to remove the veil over the hearts of the elect nation, it becomes clear that there is a spiritual house waiting to be completed BEFORE the physical house that will be the new, millennial temple to be erected atop the plateau that will rise with the splitting of the Mount of Olives (Zech 14:4-5, 9-11).

This spiritual restoration of the spiritual house that will precede the final earthly witness of a new temple centered in a restored Israel, will take place in the final 3 1/2 years of ultimate, world wide gospel witness. This great work of turning and restoration will happen, not only because the two witnesses are ministering the Word of the Lord from the streets of Antichrist infested Jerusalem, but because throughout the nations, the saints of the final persecution (i.e., the ‘maskilim’ who have insight and understanding of the meaning of these things) will be turning a “multitude which no one can number” to faith in Jesus (Dan 11:32-33, 35; 12:3, 10; Mt 24:14; Rev 7:9, 13-14; 14:6).

So who are the two? When I think of two anointed ones “that stand by the God of the whole earth,” I think of the Mount of Transfiguration, when Moses and Elijah appeared standing by Jesus. This is rich. What they represented then is what I believe is represented in the two witnesses in the over all divine purpose to “restore the fallen house.” There is much to this, as I believe ‘the house’ (in this spiritual sense) must first be restored before captive Israel can return.

Just as the anointed offices of priest and king meet perfectly in Christ in Zech 6:13, so here is the combined witness of Moses and the prophets all pointing to the perfection that is in Christ. This does not mean, however, that I expect the literal Moses and Elijah to show up in the streets of Jerusalem for the final witness, although certain of the same phenomena associated with their ministries are reproduced in the tribulation judgments. It is enough to see that whoever the witnesses are, they come, like the Lord’s reference to John Baptist, “in the spirit and power” of Elijah, not necessarily the literal individual (which creates more problems for interpretation than it solves).

Note also that in Zech 4 there is mention of the seven candlesticks of the menorah, and this is carried over in John’s revelation as reference to the seven churches of Asia, very significant. The two witnesses pour the oil (the illumination of the truth that empowers for anointed service) through two pipes into the bowl that feeds the seven candlesticks, which the Spirit by John will interpret as the seven churches in all their mixed spiritual condition. The symbolism obviously intends much more than seven principal local assemblies in ancient Asia Minor.

The seven churches stand for the light of witness, in both sickness and in health, that has characterized the confessing bodies of believer’s in Jesus throughout this age. And not this age only, since the Menorah obviously symbolized the light of Israel in the restoration under Joshua and Zerubabbel before it is used by the Spirit to symbolize the seven churches, and thus most climactically the saints of the last and unequaled tribulation.

Although this figurative imagery is rich with meaning for the church of all time, once more, it seems that there is a special corporate fullness in view for the saints of the last, ‘great tribulation’. If these witnesses are more than mere symbol, and if they are not re-incarnations (which is contrary to scripture), then something has brought these two servants, our brothers, to this point of special empowerment, and this is full of significance for all the body of Christ that will be enduring the last tribulation, because not only does the two witnesses receive ‘power’ at this point, but according to my reading of Rev 12 and other related passages in Daniel, so does all the true body at this time, or at least a vanguard remnant. This raises the compelling question: What has brought the church to this for such a time as this?

The answer to that question touches everything that is currently at stake. It has all to do with God’s use of Daniel’s end time vision and its definite chronology to cut off all confidence in the flesh and to crowd the church to a place of reality, urgency, and ultimacy with God, (“another will gird you and take you where you would not have gone”). The same convergence of revealed truth and chronological certainty will powerfully move the church into a corporate urgency (‘travail’ in analogy to Daniel’s prevailing prayer in Dan 10) hat will enforce the victory of Calvary in the heavenly realms (great corporate apprehension of the power of the gospel), empowering Michael to evict Satan affecting the final exposure of evil and the last persecution of the victorious martyr witness church who “love not their lives unto the death,” because perfect love has cast out fear even in the face of the most fearful and certain prospect of death. No wonder the heavens respond with such glorious hallelujahs.

All of this is nothing new. It was lived out in the apostolic period in principal, but must have a time of final expression and vindication of fulfillment in the last 3 1/2 years, which is why I’m so personally interested in the critical role that the first half of Daniel’s last seven years plays in the church’s preparation for the last half of the week, which is the unequaled tribulation. I can’t go into all of it now, but if you’re interested, I’ll give the evidence for why I’m convinced that the two witnesses prophesy, not in the first three years and a half, but in the second half of the week.

Ever yours in the Beloved,
Reggie

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